Bashing

[Chris]

I have been made aware of this post from the admin of the other local pk site:

"We have heard from some people that they haven't been improving although they've been going to the BAPK sessions for 6+ months now, so we are trying to figure out a way to provide a more structured, progressive solution. not to mention its something we've been talking about here for quite a while. These beginners classes are the first step, so trying to figure out how we can expand.
...
i dunno, just thinkin out loud here."

This is a disgusting thing to say....and it is rather telling. First of all, the number of people training regularly with BAPK for the past six months is very small. It consists of the core members of the community, and I cannot fathom any of them saying something like this to Corndogg...most of them have never even met Corndogg. So, are the core members of BAPK running off to Corndogg to tell him how they are not progressing?....I highly doubt it. The people of this community know that it is completely open. They know that if they have a suggestion about the session, they can talk about it in public.

This is just more anti-BAPK propaganda from SFPK. Pathetic. Perhaps part of the SFPK clan encompassed in Cordogg's "we" obtained this information about our supposed non-progressing members somehow. I urge these "double agents" to come forward and speak up.

If you are the one passing this information along, then speak to us first! If you see a problem with our sessions, why not tell us? We are very open to suggestions. This community is for the people. Why run to someone else and talk about us?

I'd love to have a public discussion about this, if these people are willing to reveal themselves. I fail to see how someone could not be progressing with us though. We offer three sessions a week. 1 completely focused on conditioning, 1 focused on conditioning and technique, and 1 focused on conditioning, technique, and jamming.

[hillexallen]

You must treat him better as he treats you worse. It is the ONLY way to solve the problem Between you guys.

[Frenchie]

Don't you find that suggesting "anti-BAPK propaganda" located on the SFPK site is just breeding tensions? fighting fire with fire is fun but we're not exactly going to get anywhere if they bash us, we bash them, and then look for "spies" as if BAPK happened to be an intricate organization with secrets to hide. All blown out of proportion in my opinion.

[Chris]

It is what it is. I understand that it doesn't affect you, but several people have put in a lot of time helping others over the past 6 months. For someone to suggest we have been wasting our time is pretty harsh. Forgive me, but I won't take that lying down.

[Bonez415]

BTW if you can smell a rat then DAMN!!! you got some good sense of smell... lol

[SafeNSure]

..."fish"! ... he meant "I smell fish"!

Sorry guys, it's my fault: I probably confused him saying always stuff like
"...that's not my piece of cake!",
"I can do this! Cup of tea!", or
"I didn't expect it, right off the blue like that. It came totally out of the bat!"...
=D

So, yeah... my bed...

LOL!

[Iliketovaultthings]

hahahahahaha sorry, we got alittle off topic there =D

[lethalbeef]

lol, why did you ellipse and add the "just thinking out loud part"?

Anyway. Thanks Georgio, Dana, Haley for suggesting that this isn't really a big deal and it shouldn't be blown out of proportion. You're using a lot of loaded words, Chris, and I think this sort of thing is really going to hurt the community overall more than it's going to help it - and by "this sort of thing," I mean the comments from both sides. I don't approve of the attitude that Corndogg takes toward you, and I get the feeling the sentiment is shared by some of you. But PLEASE, don't take the things he says to be representative of the rest of SFPK, and don't think that there's some kind of big conspiracy. For the most part, some people just avoid mentioning BAPK, and some of us, including me, even promote these beginner sessions. I have a lot of respect for what you guys do here and recognize that SFPK doesn't provide a lot of the resources that are here. But this is an attempt to help that along, fix some of the problems with SFPK that BAPK made apparent when it started up, taking a sizable portion of members with it, and becoming the place for people curious about parkour to go first.

Another thing is that BAPK is getting really really big - actually, parkour in the Bay Area has really grown recently, and with the amount of people that are around, I'm sacrificing goats that we'll be able to start working together again and put aside all this petty crap. Some people hang out on both sides, but I predicted this from the beginning: the two communities just aren't comfortable to deal with at the same time, just because it's a hassle to visit two different sites that operate with different mechanics, and especially because there's a sense of antagonism going back and forth. I know this isn't going to be fixed any time soon, but I hope at least the feelings settle down, and this thread isn't really helping things. We are going to need to start working together soon though because it's the community and the beginners who are important, and providing more classes and opportunities to train safely is monumentally more important than whatever was said and whatever happened a freaking year ago.

And I'm going to apologize right here for what's been said, even though I know that an indirect apology from me isn't going to make it better. Particularly because I feel like I may be part of the "SFPK clan" that you were talking about. And also because I'm not Corndogg's representative and what I say probably isn't what he would say. I'm going to take responsibility for being the "rat" - not because I was intentionally trying to cause any harm or badmouth BAPK, but at some point I've probably made some posts on SFPK questioning the effectiveness of the weekend beginner sessions because I have a different philosophy on teaching or something like that. Definitely didn't intend to convey that people weren't progressing, and definitely wasn't acting as a double agent. Actually, Chris, I'm a little offended that you're implying that anyone in either BAPK or SFPK would go so far as to act as a double agent or... a rat. If anything was said, it couldn't have possibly been worse than someone mentioning offhand that, say, they didn't progress as fast as they expected or something like that. And Corndogg was wrong to say what he said, because he doesn't really interact with BAPK members or go to the sessions regularly, but it's a far cry from "disgusting" or "anti-BAPK propaganda."

Anyway, I wish I could have just ignored this and moved on, but I feel like I need to provide a voice or something. And yet I want to stress that there is no "clan" or "we" that represents our philosophies or the way we all feel. We're all individuals and we have our own ideas about these things, there's no brain washing going on anywhere and people are free to make their own decisions. When he says "we" he's only referring to the programs that SFPK is trying to develop to make up for the things that it's been lacking before.

Sorry guys. This stupid rivalry controversy sucks. I love all you guys.

[Chris]

Albert, I really appreciate your honesty and I respect your words. If there is any hope of a completely unified scene, I think it will have a lot to do with you.

I reserve the right to be disgusted though. If you were in my shoes you might feel the same. Its all about perspective.

I'm very happy that SFPK is getting more organized. It was one of my original goals when I first moved here to set a strong example that would eventually be followed. While we may be very far off from unity, it is very nice to know that both sites are moving in the right direction with regard to beginners.

[Iliketovaultthings]

well Chris, i would be just as put down by this if i were in your position..... i understand what youre saying

[SafeNSure]

...group hug!
(just kiddin' again... I'm not the 'group hug' kinda guy... and I don't want to disrespect Albert's opinions and time he put in his posts, nor Chris's feelings...).

Thanks Albert for sharing your thoughts, while I don't agree on some things, in a parkour general sense I agree a lot with you.

I'm actually happy that you came to our sessions and that you're collaborating to the Berkeley training with Seng.

I'm even more happy if you can save some time to make some valuable contribution over here, since, as you may have noticed, this is definitely not anymore "just the Sunday beginners class forum", if it ever was... while many of us are little more than beginners, and all (I'd say w/o exception) share the beginners' mentality (not showing off, safety before flashiness, train now-film later, warm-up, conditioning, etc.), the dedication of the core (20-25 peeps?) of this group is out of question.

The other scene may be changing now, but let's make a step back to when I started, a little more than a year ago or so: the only forum was "the old one", and was going strong... online.
But outdoor it was hard to find people to train with... now sometimes it's too many of us... it must tell us something about the different approach this group (and it's organizers) took, and its results.

Then it happened what happened: in my opinion somebody couldn't stand to be told how to run their scene better, even if the suggestions were well-funded, even if theoretically everybody has always welcome suggestions (and still does)... even the few suggestions reputed worthy were kinda "incorporated" w/o giving due credit to anybody else (the Sunday beginners class, the safety concerns, and even the monthly jam -let's look back on how that started, should we-...).
And in my opinion "due credit" means sharing with whoever deserves it the "guidance" of the community.

Instead "the ban" came... and from there we all know the story. I thought immediately that it was a missed opportunity, but I also thought it was inevitable, at those conditions. The reasons for having two communities are, IMO, very well expressed here, and they are still valid.

The future may bring something else, fine... but we should never forget the past, in order to make informed decisions.
This is how I feel...

And, btw., talking about these things is good, and controversy is just another obstacle.
Hope you'll hang in and around Albert, because -seriously- we love you too...

[Iliketovaultthings]

you know what? just forget about it. Just leave it be, ignore it, act like it never happened. Let people follow the baparkour links and experience it themselves. It doesnt matter

[monk]

you don't have to do anything, just understand where Chris is coming from. i can understand how a lot of people have the shut-up-and-just-do-parkour mentality. it's because you love parkour and you just want to do it. you like coming to the jams and training sessions and it's fun and you go home feeling great having made new parkour friends. but to those who put a lot into making this happen for you, it's a blow to their core. these people have every right to take this personally. the origins of bapk have not just started, we're not just some/any forum where someone throws up an event and hopes that people come.

training parkour is the most important thing here, and like i said, you don't have to do anything (but train). some of us wouldn't even know where to start with what to do because things actually are fine and people are progressing. but yeah, at the end of as session, don't just go home if you have any feedback, talk about it. i for one support Chris and keeping bapk in a good light.

.