Bay Area Parkour

Train Hard - Stay Humble

Definitely the next technique I want to learn and mold into my runs. Advice on progression, and what to try them over in the beginning? The only advice I have been getting is "oh dude, go to the gym"... but I don't like training in the gym, pads aren't concrete. For me personally gym training doesn't translate well. Usually just makes me over-confident... (feel free to discuss this too.)

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Replies to This Discussion example of how gym drilling can closely resemble outdoor practice:

Sunday Seng coached a very basic progression for the double at GWHS on a 5/6' long ledge (and the week before at MLP on a 6' picnic table).

Surely he, Jodie and others can go in detail about the technique.
You don't need to go into the gym to get doubles- like most things, you can learn them properly outdoors and on unpadded obstacles if you employ proper progression. For learning purposes, I would find a structure that is about as long as you can safely single kong over. A picnic table length-wise works, but is often a little low unless you're comfortable with lowering your hips in your propulsion phase.

The way I execute doubles is a bit different than some folks in that I don't get my hips very much if at all higher than my head. When you see Ryan/Aero, Andrey, Albert/Lethalbeef and some others do theirs, their hips and legs- which sometimes kick in the air- are much higher than their heads, sometimes 45-90deg in relation to the ground whereas I tend to be in about the same position as a long single kong; that may limit my ability to pass higher or longer obstacles, but for me, it's easier to control. I would like to be able to execute their style and for that, I will likely go into the gym so I feel comfortable over-throwing my hips over my head.

Since I tend to think of things as entry/exit or propulsion/control, I see the double kong is a four-point take-off (or monkey) to a single kong. As with most movements, it's a variation on basic QM and so its implementation is basically one notch past a feet-together takeoff in the single-foot>split-foot>feet-together take-off continuum for regular kongs, ie it's more power when an obstacle is tall and/or when you approach it with less speed.

So to progress:
1. Monkey vault up onto a block and land with your weight far enough forward that you must fall forward (into QM). You can land on your feet at this point but if you don't need put your hands down to keep yourself from belly-flopping, you're not leaning forward enough.
2. Monkey to one foot, dive into a level kong. This will help you feel the path your mass will eventually be moving in. This can also be a very useful variant on the double in that you can add another propulsion stage with your foot.
3. Monkey up landing on hands first instead of feet. You can do this on level ground in regular QM position. Build confidence in your arms to control you- if you are very comfortable with level kongs, this shouldn't be too tough.
4. Keeping an eye on the far edge where you'll be placing your hands in the control portion of the move, monkey up, don't put your foot down and level kong out- voila! double kong!

Things to consider:
1. Don't slap the obstacle just to make two contacts. The double kong is not a quick hands exercise- the first hand contact should be propelling you toward the second which controls your exit just like a regular kong.
2. Your monkey vault propulsion phase should be as solid as walking before doing the double. If you are looking at where you're putting your hands in the propulsion phase, it's unlikely you'll have the clarity to quickly target your hand-landing spot while in the air.
3. You can change up the timing to be a bit more of a kong (as seen at 2:55 in this slo-mo video) but whether you power simultaneously on all limbs at once or in a sequence, the first hand contacts still need to be propulsion, not deceleration (for doubles over obstacles, that is- downward multi-kongs may employ deceleration in all hand phases, but for those gravity is adding to the "propulsive" force).

Hope that helps. As always, probably easier demonstrated in person than written out.
This is sweet.

I think anybody can(SHOULD!!) learn this move. I teach all the progressions to this move in most students' first class up here because i believe it is the best movement to most exemplify the nature of PK. You meet Momentum and you become buddies. Its the best movement series i know of to help "reprogram" that innate safety mechanism that prevents newbies from "getting going".

Then again, i get alot of "traceurs" giving me the "ARE YOU KIDDING ME???!! doubles on the first day??!!" type crap.

All of what im saying is equally applicable even when learning the dobleK outside, just remember that its atleast 3x faster to get these super dynamic or HIGH RISK FALL ON YOUR FACE ON CONCRETE AND BLEED type movements in the gym on 10 mats and a soft landing block (!!!) than on an acura hood/roof parked on your street.
Teaching people to fling themselves indoors is one thing, but doubles on the first day outdoors, yeah, I'm going to have to question that given some of the injuries I've seen from people trying to buddy up to Momentum when they should have familiarized themselves with Control (or their own bodies) first. Ryan, weren't you saying to me, when you were teaching me doubles outside at West Sunset and I was thinking that I should do them indoors first, that I should learn then outside so I would learn them properly and respect the risk involved?

I've been fairly comfortable with one-off doubles for maybe a year now, but I still wouldn't say I've really "got" doubles since I haven't done one in stride while running (ie in a sequence which includes running over a distance of more than 25m). When tired, I will tend toward single or traveling kongs over long, relatively low obstacles requiring speed; over higher obstacles and gaps I'm still more likely to monkey-to-thief or monkey-to-diving level kong (step 2 in the progression).

BTW, since I switched from a Civic to a Scion xB, it's much more difficult to pass over my car in a single, dynamic motion
Yeah, indoor to outdoor didn't translate well for me. Ryan taught me indoors and i killed it. but it's too easy indoors. hence, it's a pretty easy move, so progress it outside.

Going outside-- a lot of what Seng said. i am comfortable with sinking down and lowering my hips, so i chose a small obstacle that i can single kong. then i hand walked it to touch everything. (0:32 here). not the best example, but whatever you use, be it even just the ground, get used to the QM form- like Send said (again).

hips up super high comes later anyway, and with this method, your first hand-plant can- or doesn't have to- propel you forward; it can also propel you upward. for me, the power comes from driving my hips through the motion. for the longer doubles and the upward thing, the first hand-plant can give you a place to do a donkey kick up getting your feet way over your head, and/or something to push through once your head gets past your hands.

i'm hardly using the first block to propel myself to/over the 2nd block here. 0:13. at 0:15 i'm driving my hips to get there. then from here, you just work on distance, and getting your hips higher if you like/need. these blocks are wood, so i consider it outdoor material :P
Seng: you should post your mini tutorial somewhere, its amazing.

Aero: I agree, double kongs are epic, and a necessity as a traceur. Hence my wanting to learn and eventually master them. They define parkour, like a signature move...

Jodie: I feel like i'll NEED to learn doubles with my hips high. Since I'm kind of chubbers, I basically always have to throw my hips up high to clear my feet anyway.

As soon as my body recovers from working construction... double kong!

(to me personally gym training doesnt translate. I train in gym, take it outside, and fail miserably. lol)
SO. I went outside to work on it. I stupidly picked a difficult beginning obstacle (2 ledges with a 4 foot gap inbetween them), clipped, and failed miserably onto my face.

Afterwards, I set up 2 fold up tables next to my swimming pool and cleared easily. I think I just wasn't getting my hips high enough in the air on the ledge attempt, because it almost felt like I was completely inverted when I didn't fail... which was awesome!

In a way, the swimming pool thing was alot like gym training: no fear, no problems, etc. and it helped alot. Hopefully, it'll translate well, and my next attempt won't end up in me feasting upon pavement.

Finally, what is the point of extending your body completely on a double kong? Every video I see people are completely unfolding and stretching out their legs, does that just give you more reach for long obstacles? I sort of just kept my body curled (I think)... too! (Not that I'm really trying... yet!)

I guess what looks like an extension of the body is in reality a kick-up (donkey-style) that lifts your hips (ass?) up, as it would be lifted up by a gentle Parkour-God, allowing for extra distance.

Right now, I'm shy in bringing my double outside because, without that extra lift, which i haven't been able too coordinate well, I'm always kind of sneaking my feet through in the exit, and eventually landing a bit hard and from the side on my ankles (compared to the same length single kong).

Note to self: MORE FOCUS!
(From the video linked in the first reply)
The difference in style, while at the same time accomplishing the same distance, is still amazing, even after a year and a half.


Find more videos like this on Bay Area Parkour
I noticed that I'm not really pushing off my hands in the first one, second one is much better, i think

...and that's because in the first you almost cleared the obstacle with a single.

Gotta find a longer table!
Looking smooth! Good follow through with running out of it at the end.

In some ways, what you're doing is more difficult than the progession I outlined, and that's good. I think it's harder to do a double where you're decelerating with your first hand contact (ie actually konging into it instead of monkeying up). So now that you've got the basic movement, you can build on that and modulate how you use your first and second hand contacts as you change other things like obstacle shape, your speed entering and exiting, exiting using other techniques (eg. kong-to-speed which Jodie and Ryan do well), slight changes in direction, etc.


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