Kazuma ManPower gap

Comment

Comment by Taylor on March 10, 2009 at 6:48pm

"Well, we consider practicing movements such as kongs and pop vaults training, so I think that preparing for larger obstacles should also be considered training."

I think the point is to not necessarily rely on "drop training" to judge whether you are ready for a drop or not, or even to rely on as a leg strengthener. "Drop training" is just essentially "altitude drops" which is a plyometric exercise. I think the problem is; Parkour is plymetric enough as it is, and as a training method(plyometrics) - it requires a lot of strength before even considering it part of a training program. Plyometrics can do more harm than good if the individual is lacking that essential leg strength to resist the strain put on the body when doing it. If you lack the strength for plyometrics, then you are only causing micro-tears to the ligaments and tendons and such. Let's not forget, even if you may be a strong individual, if your technique is off, or you have bad form, you can still cause damage.


"It is how much you have prepared yourself that counts in my opinion, whether it was over a long or short period of time."

And that's pretty much what I meant by what I wrote after - as well as being productive (better preparing yourself).


"Yamakasi started out by just challenging themselves and seeing if they could do bigger and more difficult things.

I think that is part of what l'art du displacement is, challenging oneself to push the limits of what is possible"

And well, from what I have heard from different documentaries/write-ups and such, is that in the beginning, they did exercise, to strengthen the body, and with that strength, then they challenged each-other to these games of climbing things, pulling things, pushing etc...Then it just sort of evolved into what it is today.

Comment by hillexallen on March 10, 2009 at 12:23pm

Yamakasi started out by just challenging themselves and seeing if they could do bigger and more difficult things.

I think that is part of what l'art du displacement is, challenging oneself to push the limits of what is possible.

Comment by hillexallen on March 10, 2009 at 12:20pm

"if people should attempt this jumps, following the example of the "Masters"

I think that if they are ready for it and are comfortable with it, they should if they want to. There is no denying the fact that is feels really cool to do the same jump that you saw one of the original traceurs do in a video. However, whoever tries it MUST be ready for it.

"when (not if) will the first knee (ankle, tibia, femur,...) shatter?"

At the point where the knees can't handle the impact any longer. I think that the right thing to do is condition and work up to large drops over time, to make sure that the body can handle the impact. I also don't think that shattered knees are inevitable with large drops.

"this kind of jump is un necessary to practice because unless u in some kinda danger with no other way out its hardly likely to do this"

That's what my friends say when they see me practicing parkour, but think it's pointless. One reason why people train, among other reasons, is to prepare for emergencies, even though they may be unlikely.

"It's admirable and something to work towards; don't kid yourself and forget all the training and conditioning he's put in."

Yes. Definitely.

"dropping is not training; dropping is attacking your body and seeing if it can take it."

Well, we consider practicing movements such as kongs and pop vaults training, so I think that preparing for larger obstacles should also be considered training.

"Perhaps your mind is ready to drop 20 feet, but your body is not. "

Yep. The body and mind must be prepared I think.

"In a way, it's a matter of how long you've been training, but it also depends how devoted/productive you were."

It is how much you have prepared yourself that counts in my opinion, whether it was over a long or short period of time.

"...how does one "know" he/she can do it, when it's something she/he never did and it looks perilous?"

I think that one can use the same techniques as they would to assess their ability to do smaller movements like:

1. Testing it on the ground first.
2. Testing it at a different place without the huge gap.
3. Judging it with one's eyes.
4. Using progressively larger obstacles.
5. Conditioning the body to make it feel more comfortable with the jump.

"What's a reasonable risk?
Short- and long-term?"

I think that it differs for different people. It is a personal decision in my opinion.

Comment by SafeNSure on March 10, 2009 at 9:48am

...how does one "know" he/she can do it, when it's something she/he never did and it looks perilous?
What if it doesn't look dangerous on a quick look, but it would if somebody would reason about it, and would try the "what if" approach?

What's a reasonable risk?
Short- and long-term?

Comment by hillexallen on March 10, 2009 at 9:40am

I think that we should do anything that we know we can do and feel comfortable with.

Comment by Taylor on March 10, 2009 at 2:57am

I also feel as if that the practitioners today have that mind-set that if they do a big movement; big cat grab, big kong to precision, big drop, big precision etc... that they are somehow "good" and deserve recognition. It just seems as if people are after some sort of recognition, in my mind anyways. I don't think it's that big of a deal to be recognized as "good", but it is when they sacrifice things like their physical health to do these big movements. Personally, I am more impressed when someone does a very technically challenging small movement, something that is very smooth and fluid, something that is natural and beautiful, not forced. These are what impressive to me :) I cringe when people have terrible technicality or form, yet they are doing things they aren't ready for, or are way to big.

But yeah, just my 2 cents again. :)

Comment by Taylor on March 10, 2009 at 2:49am

Kazuma is a very inspiring, strong Traceur. I had the pleasure of training with him in Ohio and he's a very athletic, physically and technically prepared individual. He is also very quiet and humble, something I admire. (Random, I know lol)

Looking at his confidence in the air, as well as the smooth transition into the roll, it was a very solid movement, something I believe he was ready for.

This vid was a cut scene from B-13, Kazuma +2 others were left chasing David before the man power, but in the actual movie only the 2 others showed up at the edge of the take off after David jumped. No Kazuma :[

As far as those who take big drops and such... In a way, it's a matter of how long you've been training, but it also depends how devoted/productive you were. Someone could have been training for 10 years, but it could have been very poor training. Or, someone could have been training for 5 years, and it could have been very productive training. Who then would you think would be better prepared?

I think it's just about the mind-set/amount of knowledge you have. If you know drops can be damaging, and you are aiming for longevity, then you will simple avoid them. Those without that mind-set/knowledge will probably do big drops. We are somewhat obligated to help others to understand these things, and why they are dangerous, to not only themselves, but to the community/discipline at large.

Anyways, just my 2 cents :)

Comment by orem on March 10, 2009 at 2:14am

one last note:

PARKOUR IS NOT ANOTHER WORD FOR ROOF JUMPING. IT IS NOT A SERIES OF STUNTS. It's intimately knowing your body and your limits each and every day at any given moment, and strengthening your body and yourself to expand those limits. Perhaps your mind is ready to drop 20 feet, but your body is not.

Comment by orem on March 10, 2009 at 1:44am

I think ESPECIALLY compared with that kid of only 3 years, you can really respect Kazuma's strength and form (the kid looks more like he face/shoulder planted, while Kazuma makes a tight ball) in such a leap/landing. It's admirable and something to work towards; don't kid yourself and forget all the training and conditioning he's put in. 3 years is not gonna hack it. This is a master feat.

@Safe:
1) Sure. Sparingly. After a significant amount of proper preparation (I'm going to say 15-18 years at least?)
2) How much have you been training? Yeah. That's what I thought. Get back to training.

By the by, dropping is not training; dropping is attacking your body and seeing if it can take it. Conditioning builds up your muscles and joints to be able to withstand that attack. Training for war by shooting your arm makes very little sense.

3) Probably. A little or a lot? We shall see...
4) You know that's already happened. Especially ankles.

Comment by Anthony on March 9, 2009 at 9:10pm

i think that as long as ur comfortable with low-med falls and near perfect in ur rolls, this kind of jump is un necessary to practice because unless u in some kinda danger with no other way out its hardly likely to do this
as for trying to prevent people or the jumping mentality, thats much harder... i think the best we can do is to educate ppl to have the "safer" or "lasting" mentality rather than force upon restrictions
good example of misguided views of parkour is shown in that guy saying "Korea's [...] parkour situation" what situation

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