Spotters...

[hillexallen]

Something came up at the Sunday Beginners' Training today that I think needs to be addressed: the use of spotters in parkour.

I will be giving you all my full and honest opinion about this issue, and if you decide to post, I expect that you will give me yours.

I believe that spotters have no place in parkour besides when dealing with movements that cannot be easily worked up to. I have been taught to never try anything that I am not sure I am capable of doing safely, and I think that the use of spotters causes people to try things that they are not capable of. Obviously, it is better to take the time to get comfortable with a movement and only try it when you are ready for it than to try something that you are not ready for, even if there is a spotter, and risk injuring yourself. Remember, the first motto of parkour was "to be and to last." I also think that using a spotter interferes with learning proper technique. If you are convinced that you are not going to get hurt, what is the point of learning proper technique? Of course spotters can be useful when dealing with movements like catleaps and backflips, but they are definitely no substitute for progression and the ability to build real confidence.

Anyway, I have given you my opinion. Please give me yours.

If you believe that it is pointless to address this issue, tell me.

I just think that it is important to talk about things like this so we can all see how others are thinking, and get an overall better understanding of parkour.

Thank you, Alex

[pyz.particle]

I agree, but once you've progressed to the point where you know you can do a movement but you can't improve anymore except by actually completing it, its good to have a spotter. Then you can reduce the risk of injury while doing the complete movements... After doing it a few times with a spotter's protection, and it becomes easy, then you get rid of the spotter...

[hillexallen]

But it is necessary train your mind to be able to get past that mental block. That is part of the mental training of parkour, being able to overcome fears. I've had so many mental blocks it's not even funny, but if you just keep practicing, you can defeat them.

Yeah, and if there's a significant chance that you're going to bail at the last second and fall, I wouldn't do it at all, spotter or not, unless it's a really safe situation. Whether there's a spotter or not, you'll get hurt to some degree.

[Fyrel]

I agree with the progression and working up to a large obstacle, but it's the mental block that prevents a lot of people (including me) from actually going through and completing the movement. After a person has gained familiarity with the movement, and in turn has significantly decreased the chance of faltering at the last split second and injuring themselves, then there's no more need for a spotter. In a real world situation one wouldn't be attempting something he or she is not absolutely sure that they are able to do.

[hillexallen]

Yeah, I think that using spotters is ok when you are doing: flips, big catleaps, and things that you know you can do easily. But when learning a new movement or doing that movement on a larger obstacle, it's better to just take the time to practice it until you're ready for it by yourself because you develop the ability to work up to movements (which you will have to do when nobody is around to spot you,) and you don't risk getting injured nearly as much. Remember, to be and to last, so it's worth it to be patient and practice something until you KNOW you can do it and you are mentaly prepared to do it by yourself, because you won't have a spotter in any real life circumstances..

[pyz.particle]

you know, spotters are useful, i mean i make a clear distinction between things that I know I can do, and things that I know I can't do. If its something I can't do, i progress towards it.
Either way both paths lead to a point where you can physically do it but you just run a certain risk of hurting yourself doing it. The problem with it is that its like the top of a hill, you either get over it or you don't. Thats where spotters come in, they don't give me confidence really other than the fact that if I screw up, i won't be in as much pain, yet at the same time you're gaining the skills and muscle memory to do whatever it is more adeptly and safely.
The rule of thumb though is just to not do stupid things... everything else you can have a spotter

[Seng]

I've been waiting all month to show off the parkour helmet I've been developing in my time away from training. I'll be danged if I let you or anyone else keep me from sporting it, Albert.

BTW, if we are taking tangent into armor, anyone heard of d3o? It's flexible armor that hardens on impact. There are snowboarding knit-looking hats that are made of the stuff and there are a few traceurs on their development athletes page.

[lethalbeef]

Do you wear a helmet doing parkour? Helmets are just a way of tricking yourself into extra confidence for things you can't do - I say we stat a campaign against parkour helmets. The biggest issue today.

[Seng]

Maybe another question to ask (at the risk of inciting another endless debate on the topic) is, do you wear a helmet when you ride a bike? I don't most of the time (most of that time is riding in city traffic), but I do when I know I'm going to push my own limits, usually by myself on a hilly, twisty road. I know that a car can easily crush my head or cause fatal internal injury so I ride well within my capacity to comprehend and take action whereas when I'm on relatively deserted roads I am more likely to push my limits.

I'm also considering wearing a helmet while snowboarding because I think it might give me a little mental confidence to try some things I may be able to do physically, not to mention that I have also had a few close calls where had I miscalculated I would probably have very much appreciated having some protection. Oh, wait, I've had a couple actual miscalculations where I wouldn't have minded a helmet.

I know helmets alone won't save me in serious collisions in either case (when you consciously enter certain risk-filled environments, it's dishonest to consider something an accident), but sometimes they make it easier to manage the fear of consequences.

[Fyrel]

Jodie has it pretty much spot on. It's not so much a matter of making someone overconfident by spotting them, it's giving them a mental and physical safety net. I find it useful, as I'm very timid when it comes to making that final inch to get your feet over. When doing something I'm not confident with, I always slowly progress to the point where I know I can make it. However, many times I just can't bring myself to go that final distance, even though I know and have proved to myself it's well within my physical capabilities. That's why we train with a spotter; to get over that mental block.

[Seng]

I'd like to third what Jodie wrote and add that even if you discover an obstacle that is actually beyond your physical abilities, it can be occasionally be good to see just how close you might be with a certain amount of potentially decreased consequences gained by a spotter. That's not to say that a spotter makes a risky move safe, it just makes an almost attainable move less damaging in a crash (the long term positive effects of crashes is another topic that I don't want to write about right now so as not to derail this discussion). Even if you are a very light person with a very strong spotter, the most you can count on is for someone to slow or deflect you just enough so you can use your own abilities manage a crash.